As a co-founder of the Women’s Mining Coalition, Debbie Struhsacker is working towards a more sustainable future by driving change through mining regulation and policies. After spending much of her career working through environmental permitting and government affairs in the mining industry, Debbie is passionate about its vitality and the critical role it continues to play in our economy. Her contributions to the mining industry in Nevada, specifically lithium mining, shape the future of how renewable energy and mining will work together.
Modern Mining in Nevada: The Implications for Lithium Technology
Debbie Struhsacker, a prominent figure in mining policy, co-founded the Women’s Mining Coalition. With a background in geology, Debbie brings a wealth of experience to the table, having navigated the complexities of environmental permitting and government affairs within the mining industry. She created the Women’s Mining Coalition to bring women from various sectors of the mining industry together to have their voices heard in Washington. Annually, the Women’s Mining Coalition travels to DC to speak with members of the House and Senate about critical issues and various mining regulations.
In this episode of the Li-MITLESS ENERGY Podcast, Debbie joins host Dr. Denis Phares to discuss misconceptions about modern mining, stringent government regulations, and the key to a sustainable future. Throughout the podcast, Debbie emphasizes the critical importance of minerals like lithium, cobalt, nickel, and graphite in enabling the transition to sustainable energy, underlining the necessity for responsible mining practices to meet growing demand. Together, their discussion shines a light on the complex intersection of mining, renewable energy, and environmental stewardship, highlighting the need for a balanced approach to meet the world’s energy needs sustainably.
Listen to the full episode or watch the recording on our YouTube channel and be sure to keep up with Debbie Struhsacker and the Women’s Mining Coalition!
Podcast Transcript
Debbie Struhsacker: 00:00
The burgeoning awareness of policymakers and the public in general about, gosh, if I want solar panels if I want wind turbines if I want electric vehicles, I’ve got to have these materials.
Denis Phares: 00:31
Welcome to the Li-MITLESS ENERGY Podcast. And today it’s my pleasure to welcome Debbie Struhsacker, mining policy expert, and co-founder of the women’s mining coalition. Welcome.
Debbie Struhsacker: 00:42
Well, thank you very much. I’m very pleased to be here today.
Denis Phares: 00:45
Mining is very important to us. We’re a lithium ion battery company, obviously, we are very interested in policy surrounding lithium mining. And I’d like to understand a lot more. So I really appreciate you you coming on. First of all, I want to talk about your background. So you’re a geologist by training.
Debbie Struhsacker: 01:05
That’s correct. I have two degrees in geology: a bachelor’s and master’s degree.
Denis Phares: 01:09
In Nevada?
Debbie Struhsacker: 01:10
No, my bachelor’s degree is from Wellesley College, which is outside of Boston. Massachusetts, yeah. Yes. Then my master’s degree is from the University of Montana in Missoula, Montana.
Denis Phares: 01:20
Okay, are you? Are you an east coaster?
Debbie Struhsacker: 01:23
No, I’m a Westerner. I was born and raised in Denver, Colorado.
Denis Phares: 01:27
And ended up in Wellesley.
Debbie Struhsacker: 01:28
I ended up for four years of my wife and Wellesley. I married an easterner my husband’s from northern New Hampshire. And I in fact, I just came back from a trip to Maine and New Hampshire and I love it back there, but I love it here more.
Denis Phares: 01:41
So how did you get into mining? Was it in Missoula?
Debbie Struhsacker: 01:44
Well, I think I actually got into mining because of my father. My father had a family company. He was a mechanical engineer. And he ran a family owned business, that manufactured truck mounted rotary drilling equipment that was used in the mining industry, oil and gas industry and water well exploration industry. And so he was tangentially involved in the mining industry. And I just saw that growing up. And I, I think it had an influence on me.
Denis Phares: 02:11
How did you get started in that field?
Debbie Struhsacker: 02:14
Well, I had a degree in geology, graduating from Wellesley with a bachelor’s degree and needed an entry level job. And there were jobs in the mining industry at that point in time. And I went to work for actually I went to work for Bethlehem Steel, in Lehigh, Pennsylvania. And they had a geology division that looked for not just iron ore, but for also base metals. And so I started out my career in Economic Geology, which is another way to say mining geology and spent about the first decade or so with a rock pick in my hand and as an exploration geologist, and then, just by serendipity in the mid 1980s, I transitioned into environmental permitting. And that kind of led me into my current mixture of what I do, which is environmental permitting and Government Affairs for companies that are exploring for minerals and building and operating mines.
Denis Phares: 03:10
So you started with Bethlehem Steel, and in Nevada, the mining historically is around gold and silver.
Debbie Struhsacker: 03:18
Right? That’s right, although we have pretty significant copper deposits and some molybdenum deposits as well. Lead and Zinc say around Eureka, but yes, you know, we are the Silver State we were founded with mining in the Comstock Lode, which was mainly a silver deposit, at least initially.
Denis Phares: 03:37
Are you interested in the history of mining the Comstock Lode is obviously from.
Debbie Struhsacker: 03:42
The history of mining is fascinating, because really, the history of mining is one way to look at the development of the Western US. I mean, the mining history really has so much to do with the development of the west where our towns sprang up. And, of course, you know, the history here in Nevada, with the Comstock Lode is very significant nationally, because Nevada became a state, you know, we’re the Battle Born state, that became a state in 1864. So that President Lincoln would have enough Electoral College votes to win the election.
Denis Phares: 04:20
I was aware, yes, we are, of course, Battle Born batteries and yeah, we’re very proud of that title. So it is interesting that the society, like in Nevada developed around the mines, but at the same time the mines provide the minerals necessary to progress, society and technology in general. So the policy around mining has evolved to be able to sustain the development of technology, correct? Yes. So where are we now, let’s move on now from steel, gold and silver now to lithium? First of all, how is lithium different?
Debbie Struhsacker: 04:59
Well, I’m not sure that lithium is all that different in that the, the regulations that pertain to development of a gold and silver mine are essentially the same regulations that pertain to a lithium mine. And that’s both on the federal and state levels. And here in Nevada, we have as a state, some of the most effective and comprehensive mining regulations of any place in the world. In fact, our regulators at the Bureau of Mineral, Regulation and Reclamation are often sought after by countries around the world for how to regulate mining projects properly.
And in particular, for the financial assurance program that was developed really here in Nevada, so that when you explore for minerals, or develop a mine here in Nevada, whether you’re on private land or public land administered by the Bureau of Land Management, or the US Forest Service, you have to provide a bond, a financial assurance instrument to guarantee that your operation will be fully reclaimed when you are done. Whether you you know, at the end of the day aren’t successful in developing a mine or whether you develop a mind that’s going to operate for 40-50 years, you have to provide financial assurance to guarantee that mine will be reclaimed.
And right now, our regulators are state regulators and federal regulators work under the terms of a memorandum of understanding where they co-manage this financial assurance program. And we have just in Nevada, over $3.4 billion of financial assurance to guarantee our mines and our exploration sites will be fully reclaimed. I think that’s a pretty impressive accomplishment.
Denis Phares: 06:54
Are the regulations in Nevada stringent even for the other states?
Debbie Struhsacker: 06:59
I’d say they are state-of-the-art and yes, they are stringent. Many other states in the country certainly have comprehensive regulations as well. But our regulations are, are very stringent, they’re comprehensive. And I think importantly, they’re always evolving. So you know, you shouldn’t be required to be clairvoyant, if you’re a regulator, you should be able to adjust regulations. When new conditions become evident. And working closely together, the Nevada mining industry and the Nevada Division of Environmental Protection, have refined and continued to fine-tune the regulations that apply to mining here and in the state. And I would be remiss in saying that the federal regulators have similarly comprehensive regulations, and they dovetail very well under that memorandum of understanding that I mentioned a little earlier.
Denis Phares: 07:55
And how does it compare internationally? Certainly, you expect things to be more ‘lax in China. But there’s a lot of lithium mining in South America, how does it compare to various parts of the globe.
Debbie Struhsacker: 08:09
Nobody does it better, safer and cleaner than we do here in Nevada, and in general in the US nowhere. So it’s kind of an apples and oranges comparison. So if sustainability and environmental responsibility is something that people are concerned about, when sourcing their lithium, or their copper, or their graphite, or their cobalt, or their nickel, and all of those minerals that are absolutely essential to renewable energy, the best place to develop them is here in the US. And we have good resources of many of those minerals. But unfortunately, we have permitting issues here that make it harder to develop mines because of permitting timelines. And we have a lot of opposition to mining here, too, that also leads to a protracted permitting process.
Denis Phares: 09:02
So it’s a little unfortunate, then that it’s harder to set up a mine here, but we do it better and safer. So we end up buying resources from overseas. And it’s done in a more environmentally destructive way.
Debbie Struhsacker: 09:18
Not only that, but it’s also doesn’t make any sense from a carbon emissions footprint analysis. So, you know, if you could choose to get your lithium from Nevada and your Tesla, and you need lithium, do you want to get it from Nevada? Or do you want to have to get it from China and incur that co2 footprint that is necessary to transport minerals around the globe? So, you know, if you look at this just from a big picture, it’s an environmental win-win the more we obtain our critical minerals from the US, compared to even friendly countries, I mean, if we could get it here, the carbon footprint of getting lithium here is less than the carbon footprint of getting it from Australia.
Denis Phares: 10:05
So what is the argument for the opposers of mines? Is there any validity?
Debbie Struhsacker: 10:13
I think many people who are opposed to mining are misinformed about what modern mining is all about. I mean, there’s no question that mining in the past created environmental problems. But so did every other industry. I mean, Ford Motor Company doesn’t build F-150s today the same way as they built a Model T for heaven’s sakes. So the mining industry is no different, except that what we did is still outside. the Ford factory of the Model T era may be gone, but the mines of the early 1900s are not. And so their environmental problems are still visible, and people who are kind of anti-development, capitalize upon those pre-regulation, environmental problems and tried to get people concerned about mining by misinforming them that today’s mines are going to create the same problems as the mines of 1912. And that’s just of course, ridiculous.
Denis Phares: 11:15
So the misinformation is accidental, or it’s deliberate.
Debbie Struhsacker: 11:19
It is very intentional. It’s very intentional. I mean, people individuals may be unintentionally misinformed. And you know, then that’s the mining industry’s job to try to provide them with the correct information. But there are many, many NGOs and groups that just are ideologically opposed to mining. I think if they thought it through, and I’ll tell you what this recognition of the need to reduce our carbon emissions and the indispensable role that critical minerals plays in that is an inconvenient truth for them. And they are busily trying to convince the world that we still don’t need to mine, we can do this through recycling, we can have a circular economy. And you know, that’s aspirational, maybe someday recycling can be a very significant component of supplying the mineral stream that we need. But right now, there just isn’t enough material out there yet to recycle to fulfill a meaningful portion of that demand.
Denis Phares: 12:26
Certainly not lithium.
Debbie Struhsacker: 12:27
Certainly not lithium.
Denis Phares: 12:28
Let’s talk about lithium. There’s one active lithium mine in the United States right now. And we desperately need more lithium, and there are a number of projects going on. In your view, could that happen faster?
Debbie Struhsacker: 12:44
Well, let’s look at the Thacker Pass project, for example, in Humboldt County, that’s Lithium Nevada’s project. And it’s very exciting that the project is underway and being constructed. But there can be no doubt that it was delayed through litigation. So litigation is a common denominator in the permitting process, because litigation is sort of the last phase of the permitting process. And it frequently delays the development of mining projects and all sorts of other projects, as well.
Denis Phares: 13:20
Was there one main sticking point for the Thacker Pass project.
Debbie Struhsacker: 13:24
Oh, that litigation was in my mind a throw the spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks.There were many elements of that litigation.
Denis Phares: 13:32
But that project obviously is moving forward. So they’re beyond that.
Debbie Struhsacker: 13:39
And not only that, but the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, rejected the plaintiffs demands and and upheld the BLM approval for the permit that allows that project to proceed.
Denis Phares: 13:56
We do hear about endangered species. We’ve heard about the sage grouse and the buckwheat down in the Rhyolite Ridge. Is there any credence to those concerns?
Debbie Struhsacker: 14:08
Well, all of those endangered species can certainly be a complicating factor at any mining project or any other kind of project for that matter. But impacts to an endangered species can be mitigated. It’s not necessarily a complete showstopper, for instance, Ioneer at Rhyolite Ridge, they’re doing something very exciting with cultivating the team’s buckwheat in a greenhouse facility up here in northern Nevada. So, you know, mining projects, one of the things about a mining project that is an immutable truth is the ore deposit is where Mother Nature and the forces of geology put it, it cannot be moved.
You can maybe reconfigure some of the facilities around it, but that ore deposit, if it’s going to be developed, has to be mined right where it’s been discovered. So things like a critical or an endangered species, we have to be able to accommodate that we have to be able to mitigate impacts to an endangered species if they occur through other kinds of mitigation measures, like what Ionair is doing to cultivate the buckwheat here in Northern Nevada, or in places you might be looking on the case of sage grouse with compensatory mitigation to enhance offsite habitat to offset the unavoidable impacts to habitat where your mine is.
Denis Phares: 15:37
We do go above and beyond here, right. And if you don’t allow these minds to continue, we’re going to get the materials elsewhere where there are endangered species, and there’s other environmental effects. And so I don’t know why that’s not viewed, it’s not viewed more favorably that at least we are trying to mitigate these effects here.
Debbie Struhsacker: 15:59
You know, I can’t answer that question. Except to say the other part of the equation that seems to be missing from the opposition to mining here is people. Because if you care a lot about people, then you want them to go home safely every night after they’ve worked at a mine. And that is certainly not the way mines in other countries or some other countries anyway, are operated where there’s very little attention to worker health and safety. I mean, heck, you know, there’s still child labor being used to mine cobalt in the DRC.
Denis Phares: 16:32
Well, where else would we get cobalt?
Debbie Struhsacker: 16:34
Well, you could get it from the deposit in Minnesota, except for the fact that this administration has just put a world class deposit of copper, nickel and cobalt off limits to mining for 20 years.
Denis Phares: 16:46
Is there enough cobalt in Minnesota to offset what we can get from Congo?
Debbie Struhsacker: 16:52
I don’t know how that, you know, weighs out in a volumetric sort of way. But heck, it’s a start. And, you know, why would we not try to take responsible advantage of the mineral resources we have here, rather than get them from anywhere else. I mean, again, there’s just a lack of balance. Those deposits are in an area. They’re on national forest lands where they’re near and a wilderness area, but they’re not in the wilderness area. And I’m well convinced that the state of Minnesota has very, very stringent environmental protection regulations for mining projects, and that that project could be responsibly developed in a way that, you know, we could have a win-win, it would be an environmentally responsible mine are the copper, nickel, cobalt, and there’s also platinum and palladium and that deposit that we need for our for our renewable energy technologies.
Denis Phares: 17:50
There’s no question about that. I mean, all of those metals are, are important. Yeah, yeah. So well, let me switch gears here a little bit. You are co-founder of the Women in Mining Coalition.
Debbie Struhsacker: 18:04
Women’s Mining Coalition.
Denis Phares: 18:05
Women’s Mining Coalition. So tell me about that. How did that… why did that get started?
Debbie Struhsacker: 18:09
WelI, I started the women’s mining coalition in 1993, with two other women geologists here in Reno. And our concept at the time was President Clinton had just been elected and the House and the Senate were both dominated by Democratic majorities. And there were two very problematic mining law bills being considered in the Congress. And we got the idea that, well, maybe we could take a group of women, geologists and other women who are involved in mining back to Washington, DC, to go talk to a number of newly elected women lawmakers. That was also the year of the woman in Congress, the that year in 1992, more women than ever had been elected to Congress.
So that was the germ of an idea. And we made our first trip in March of 1993. Never thinking that it would be but a one off thing. And, you know, I’m still kind of pinching myself today that 30 years later, we’re still making annual trips to Washington, DC to talk to lawmakers about the importance of mining, and, you know, lawmakers now have an elevated understanding of that, given the focus of critical minerals and renewable energy. And we’re still arguing about the same kind of mining law issues that we were 30 years ago.
But we have women from all over the country in coal and hardrock mining, that attend these fly ins and they are, you know, they span the gamut from technical people to women who work for vendors and suppliers and equipment manufacturers like Caterpillar, and we usually spend the several days on the Hill usually three or four days on, they’ll often get in as many as 200 or more meetings with House and Senate offices. So it’s a, you know, again, I’m sort of astonished that we’re still at it 30 years, but that’s how we got started.
Denis Phares: 20:14
What were some of your biggest wins? What did you convince the lawmakers to do?
Debbie Struhsacker: 20:20
Well, I do think in 1993, in 1994, that when those first mining law bills were being considered that we and others, didn’t we we certainly didn’t do it single handedly played a role in those bills not getting passed. I mean, sometimes you have to measure legislative victories by stopping a bill rather than getting a bill over the finish line. So I think we had a played a role in in defeating those very onerous bills that that sought to limit mining on public lands. And frankly, those bills are still out there in you know, several reincarnations later, and they’re still trying to stop mining on public lands. I mean, if they would be enacted today, the mining industry here in Nevada would look very, very different since most of our minds occur on public lands or a combination of private and public lands.
Denis Phares: 21:12
Yeah, and it is such important work, considering the direction we’re going now where we need to onshore not just production, but the resources we need to onshore where we get the natural resources. And it’s a matter of national security now.
Debbie Struhsacker: 21:30
Absolutely, it is. And that’s been a key focus of the Women’s Mining Coalition for a long time, we were concerned about critical minerals before it was cool. So for at least the last 10-12 years, one of the things we have talked to lawmakers about is our dependency on mineral imports. And we as one of you know, we would have fliers, and we’d walk into the offices with a group of papers that we wanted to review with the lawmakers or their staff. And one of them was always a chart that we would get from an annual publication by the US Geological Survey. It’s called the Mineral Commodity Summary.
Debbie Struhsacker: 22:10
And that annual summary always has a chart that shows it’s a bar graph that shows how many minerals and what our percentage of dependence on minerals and which countries those minerals come from. And if you look at an evolution of that chart, it’s just terrifying because we’ve become more and more and more dependent on countries for our minerals. And right now, we’re something like 100% dependent on 17 minerals, and more than 50% dependent for another, at least a couple dozen. And that’s just an untenable situation. As you mentioned, it’s really it’s really threatening to national defense and our economy.
Denis Phares: 22:57
Yeah, we unfortunately made the decision to outsource the, the mining the minerals, and also the just manufacturing in general, that was just misguided. I think it was in more of an investing decision, you know, that we just did not invest in the infrastructure for it here. No, and we’re playing catch up now.
Debbie Struhsacker: 23:19
We are and this also, I think, was influenced by, uh, you know, I guess it means maybe taught in business schools in the 90s and early 2000s. The in vogue, just-in-time inventory concept that you don’t have, you know, a supply of the stuff you need on hand. You just keep it rolling. You know, you get it just in time. And while COVID, you know, the pandemic certainly illustrated the danger of that when we were all frantically shopping for paper towels and toilet paper and this and that and the other because nobody had an inventory. It was a very short sighted when you think about it, I mean, especially and I think, really our military leaders have always been concerned about it.
One of the projects I’m working on is a project in Idaho called the Stibnite gold project that is a source of both gold as the name suggests, but also antimony and antimony is a critical minerals and it is absolutely essential component of munitions. And the Department of Defense has given this project a couple of grants, because they have determined it is the only source of antimony that has the right chemistry to make meet military specifications for what they need for munitions. Well, that’s terrifying. Because we get most of our antimony from China right now.
Denis Phares: 24:47
Wow. That is incredible. Well, as you noted, you were in two critical minerals before they were cool. Did you ever think you’d see a day when they become cool?
Debbie Struhsacker: 24:59
No. I’m flabbergasted, here we are, here we are. And that really is the inconvenient truth. The burgeoning awareness of policymakers and the public in general about, gosh, if I want solar panels, if I want wind turbines, if I want electric vehicles, I’ve got to have these materials. So all of these renewable energy technologies are very materials intensive. And the world simply doesn’t have those materials right now. And there are projections by many credible sources of just skyrocketing demand for lithium, among others, copper, nickel, cobalt, graphite, aluminum, and it’s a problem.
Denis Phares: 25:47
Well, keep doing the important work that you’re doing. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Debbie Struhsacker: 25:54
Well, thank you. I really enjoyed talking to you today. Thanks very much.
Denis Phares: 25:58
Thank you for joining us today on the Li-MITLESS ENERGY podcast. Be sure to subscribe on any of your favorite podcast platforms.
